But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Or even presenting the center view? Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. This was an important, affecting interview. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. They are in a tough spot. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. Fantastic interviews. 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. I also appreciate your parting words. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? Interested to hear about your mission, did you serve in Wandsworth at all? According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. October 20, 2021. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. OMAHA, Neb. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. https://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=24440. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? Thanks to the both of you! I hope you consider doing this. When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. That was fascinating, thank you. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. I heard he had left the church soon after returning home. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Does your wife and/or children? The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). Thank you for sharing it with me. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. John, you asked for information about any of the Christensens. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. and our Resolved: Release in which this issue/RFE has been resolved. I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." When?? I happen to believe so. SALT LAKE CITY Egyptologist Ed Ashment sympathizes with Washington anthropologist for now has escaped excommunication from the LDS Church. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Follow @BHMetcalf. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. I was a writer for 7th East Press. We had some technical difficulties. It all depends on the depth of study one does. End of my short story. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . Do you believe that your martial arts and mental training has contributed to your belief system and the independence from the crowd? Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. Phooey to that. This was an awesome interview. January 15, 2015. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. What are your views on the work of Hugh Nibley? [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Brent Metcalf. this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! Long question, sorry ! I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. What do you think about the DCP/Hamblin FARMS implosion? [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) Movies. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. So, so good. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. I have that info direct from Mac himself. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. What was the arrangement and the special business relationship Steven had with the Church in this regard? Ive heard there might. John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. And much was going on. I was going to ask the same thing. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. @BHMetcalf. Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Be the first to contribute! Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? 1. He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. Thats what I expected from church leaders.I meanSalamander spirit !! After admiring the glory of the Lamb for some time, I began to think of the situation my body was in, and rose up to return home. It was so, so interesting. A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. We Elders thought this was powerful truth, to compliment the claims of the Book of Mormon, to convince the Jew and Gentile. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. As soon as we can! Thanks for this podcast! Andrew, Joseph Smith dictated the story of princess Katumin and her regal father Onitas to his scribes Oliver Cowdery and William W. Phelps, who recorded the tale in two small notebooks. Cookie Notice The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. This is definitely a not-miss interview. Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Menu. Thanks, John and Brent! Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. Without good research, ours is a heritage shallow in meaning. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. She was in the middle of her frustrations with the MTC (and some of you know the story). Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. Leave a Reply Cancel reply. I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. https://egyptianalphabetandgrammar.blogspot.com/. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. Broad topics include my excommunication plus BoMor and BoAbr research. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. I was there at the very beginning. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. Awesome. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. How have things changed over the decades? Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Thank you for this interview. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. Rude Dog Never fear! Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. Download . D&C 76:2021). In another post Ill comment on the Mark Hoffman affair. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. The Book of Abraham? [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. Honestly, incredible work. Im with you on the music Charles!! As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. Will there be more? The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. I hope to move on some day as well. Twitter. Im not sure why I would have been hesitant to answer the question during the interview since Ive addressed it numerous timesIll have to go back and listen. This is what led me here! This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Im not excited anymore. St. Martins Press. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. All rights reserved. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. Thank you John and Brent. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Very cool, any personal stories youd like to share? I have question on the Book of Abraham. Yes! brent metcalfe excommunicated. I think that it speaks volumes about their powers of discernment and what they truly think about Joseph Smith. Really, such a great family. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Youve used it well Brent. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. I., **My question is if Brent could provide a copy of the parallels between Elias Snow and Joseph Smith that Wilford Paulson (former BYU professor)inserted into the book. Thats not necessarily a problem, of course. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? Thanks! It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club.
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