But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Really appreciate it. They absolutely do. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. We'll push great photos to the front page. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. David Erler says some of them probably have. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Mike thanks for your call. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. Share. Caller: Are probably. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. Thank you very much for listening. You saw what you saw. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. That's next time on one day. And the cougar embodies that. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. A lot of times. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Pelosi story here we go. No doubt in my mind it was. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. New Hampshire Public Radio | Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. 44-N Links. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. And they were using all the habitat. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. N.H. It doesn't happen as much anymore. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. Caller: I have yeah. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Think you've seen a mountain lion? If so that's for us as an agency. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. Really appreciate it. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Thank you very much for being here. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. Theres tracks everywhere. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. 1957. So give us a call now. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. John is calling from Bennington. Have it reported down in the Keene area. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 Love hearing these stories. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Sam. That's too big for Bobcat. So what those ranges. But you've done some reporting on this. So they're scary. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Does not test random Scouts. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. 19 Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Thank you. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. Well let's talk a little bit about that. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. It's good to talk to you. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Part II. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. I tracked cats and all the western states. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. So so. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. But no proof was offered. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. And so. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Tim Yeah. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. We're not in the woods. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. Patrick Tate: Yes. This is the exchange. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. Do cougars live in New England? How far were you from this cat. brings a lot of. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Right. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. Peter Biello: Hmm. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Well within there. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. So there's even debate about that very subject. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Let us know your story and share your photos! Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. So. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. I don't know if she still is. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. You're on the air. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. So it's there was no question in my mind. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. There's no attraction. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Thank you. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. I mean it wasn't your idea. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. I mean they're a survivor. I have one that's more elaborate than that. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. On a dirt road. Can you look into this picture. So take care of this problem. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. I can't. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen.
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